Intro 0:01
Many aspire to reach the upper echelon of the healthcare industry, but few are able to successfully navigate the corporate ladder. C-Suite Partners sits down with international healthcare executives, asking the tough questions and unpacking the personalities of the top industry leaders. Welcome to the Boardroom.
Michael Murray 0:34
I’m interested, because you’ve got such a broad cross-section of experience, right? Do you remember a miscalculation, a misstep, something that was an error in judgment that’s impacted the way that you look at doing business moving forward?
Stuart Bennett 0:49
Yeah, there’s a lot.
Michael Murray 0:52
Yeah, always, there’s always a lot.
Stuart Bennett 0:52
Look, I would say that probably some of the decisions which I’ve made that were incorrect were really when I didn’t trust my own gut, honestly, and when I allowed myself to be influenced by other people – especially with regards to individuals. Because, you know, I always have different discussions with members of my team, the Group CHRO, my Finance Director, etc. But my view is that, inherently, people are good and they want to do the right thing. You know, that’s maybe a naive view, and I know there are some bad people out there, but in general, I believe that everybody’s trying to do their best, right? So sometimes people don’t perform, and sometimes people don’t understand what the right behaviours are. But my view is that if somebody is loyal to the organisation and is trying, they should be given time, right? And to me, it’s more important to have people who are really committed to the organisation and are making an effort, than superstars who are like a social butterfly and are not really committed to the organisation – they’re just building their own career trajectory, and they’re using you as a stepping stone to their next gig, right? So I’ve generally favoured the people who are not doing that, and that maybe means I select people who are not the superstars. I tend to back the unsung heroes, right? The people who are really trying. And quite often, I’ve allowed people to influence that and accelerate timelines to exiting people who –
Michael Murray 2:23
Right.
Stuart Bennett 2:23
– I probably should have retained longer. And then the funny thing is, those people actually end up – if you look at their career trajectory – those people end up being more successful sometimes than the superstars.
Michael Murray 2:32
Sure, right.
Stuart Bennett 2:32
So, you know, it’s like, I’m, sadly, a Southampton Football Club fan. Any Southampton Football Club fan listening and watching this will understand what that means. You know, Southampton Football Club has a nasty habit of bringing unknown footballers into their ranks, developing them, and then losing them to much better-paid football clubs. And it’s the same analogy for me. You know, you may have somebody who’s a future superstar, and if you give them enough time and you put in enough resources and efforts – as long as they’re loyal to the organisation and they’re really trying – in the end, I would give up a little bit of allowance for performance, for the right attitude. And consequently, if there are people who are really good and really excellent but are not really committed to the organisation, when they leave, I’m not so bothered, to be honest.
Michael Murray 3:22
Okay. And in terms of the executive talent that you look for, I’m interested in situations where we’ve all been through it – great CV, interviews fantastic, reference checks immaculate – and six months later, it doesn’t work out. Why do you think that is?
Stuart Bennett 3:42
So, first of all, I don’t read CVs – like, legit, I don’t even look at the CV. I’m not interested, because I think CVs are kind of what the person thinks they’ve done right, and what they’ve theoretically done right, but it doesn’t necessarily say what they’ve really done right. And it’s kind of the same as back in my military days – let’s just say the guys who’ve actually done stuff don’t talk about it. I’m very big on genuinely getting alignment during the interview with what the person is actually passionate about – like, what they want to do, not necessarily what they’re doing now, or what the job says we’re asking them to do, but what do they really want to do? And I’ve been in interviews where I’ve interviewed somebody for a job, and it’s perfectly clear they could do that job, but they shouldn’t be doing that job because they’re not passionate about it, right? And so hopefully I have another opportunity in the organisation. But I will also, on the other side, interview people whose CV maybe doesn’t look like a good fit, but there’s something about what they’ve done, some situational aspect, where I’m like, “This person would probably be good at this role,” right? Even though the recruiter is like, “Why are you picking this CV?” And then actually, when you interview them, you realise that you’re probably right. So, I think if people are not passionate, at least to some extent, about what they’re doing – if they’re genuinely not interested in what they’re doing – they will always underperform. I think you just have to ask the questions that are not obvious, really understand who the person is as an individual, and understand their motivation. And I think if you do that, then your success rate is really high. I think, to your point, if somebody looks great on paper and says all the right things – for me, that’s kind of a red flag, because it means they’re too prepped for the interview, which makes me wonder why. And like I said, if the CV looks perfect, the profile looks perfect, the references look perfect, but they don’t really have the passion for the role, they’ll probably fail.
Michael Murray 5:34
I want to dive a little bit deeper on this particular subject, because I’m always interested in how we find balance between the instincts that have got us to where we are. Whether you’re successful in business, whether it’s the way that you market – the further you get into your career, the more you listen to advice. And I kind of resonate with that. When it doesn’t work out, you think, “Why did I listen to someone who’s never done it before?” and you’ve got a 90% success rate, because you’re thinking in your head, “Why? Why would I have done that?”. Why do you think, from a psychology point of view, we tend to do that?
Stuart Bennett 6:15
So, my view is, when you become more senior – let’s say when you’re a CEO, going from being a CEO of a smaller organisation to a CEO of a larger organisation – I think when you’re in a smaller organisation, you generally have more leeway to make decisions without interference and influence, right? When you’re in a more complex organisation, the board is bigger. The board is actually a real board – in smaller companies, maybe it’s not really a real board, but it’s a real board. You have real investors with real experience. And I think in general you tend to listen more, because your assumption is, “Well, that person is very experienced, and therefore whatever they’re saying must have some value.” Now it probably does, right? But it may not be directly applicable to the situation. And I think you can end up in a very complex organisation with a very experienced board and very experienced investors, and those people are hugely experienced, but they may not be specifically experienced in your industry, right? And they don’t know the full operational context, and you do.
Michael Murray 7:18
Yes, that’s it.
Stuart Bennett 7:19
And I think your job, really, is to try to help them understand the operational context, right? And somehow wed their view with your view into something which works for both, right? It’s not easy, but I think it can be done most of the time. But then, ultimately, like I said, in those situations, I would just go back to – whether it’s a board or an investor – and say, “Look, guys, my view is X, and I’m saying that based on my level of experience. I’ve been doing this for a while. I think I’ve proven to you in the past that generally I make good decisions, not always 100% right, but generally good. And if you want to veto me, that’s your right. But we then both have to accept the consequences of that. And if you’re right and I’m wrong, I’m very happy, because I’ve learned something. And if I’m right and you’re wrong, then it’s a learning point, and we take it forward and next time we do something different.”
Michael Murray 8:15
Sure. It’s a great way to end it. Thank you so much for being a part of “In the Boardroom”.
Stuart Bennett 8:20
Pleasure.
Michael Murray 8:20
Very, very interesting.
Stuart Bennett 8:21
You too.
